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When we first saw the surveillance video, we were surprised.
The Hungarian ambassador to Brazil was active in the embassy. Jair Bolsonaro, the former president of Brazil – fresh from a court order not to leave the country due to an intensifying criminal investigation – arrived at the gate. An agent rushed into the living room with sheets and a coffee maker.
And then, for two days, Mr. Bolsonaro wandered around the parking lot, looking bored, and one of his bodyguards took pizza.
Given the situation — a politician facing the possibility of being imprisoned while sleeping in a foreign embassy controlled by his political allies — he had all the earmarks of a man seeking political asylum. Foreign embassies can be considered autonomous territories and have historically been used as shelters for people escaping prison.
My colleagues and I published an article stating this, complete with video.
In response, Mr. Bolsonaro’s lawyer issued a statement saying he only went to the embassy to discuss politics. Any suggestion otherwise, they say, is “fake news”.
Alexandre de Moraes, a Brazilian Supreme Court judge leading a criminal investigation into the former president, later ruled that Mr. Bolsonaro had not broken the law by sleeping in the embassy.
So when I sat down with Mr. Bolsonaro for an interview this week, I finally wanted to ask him why — in the middle of Brazil’s carnival, four days after police seized his passport — he decided – he decided to sleep in the small room. of the Embassy of Hungary.
Here is an excerpt from our exchange, translated from Portuguese and edited for clarity.
Why did you sleep in the Hungarian Embassy for two nights?
See, it’s about the time zone I was talking about. And that’s the end.
But you slept there for two nights?
Yes.
Is this normal?
It’s up to you to decide.
You don’t have a bed in Brasília? (Brasília is the capital of Brazil.)
I do. I could have fought with my wife. I don’t speak. Like when I talk to authorities, I don’t say I did. Nothing comes out to me. Zero.
Have you slept in other embassies?
Who knows? I am a friend of Israel. I agree with the countries of the Arab world. I won’t say what I do because that gives them a narrative to chase. I am a free citizen.
Alexandre de Moraes’ team wanted to arrest me because I was traveling without a passport. You do not need a passport to enter the embassy.
You are a private citizen. You are also a former president who talks about the importance of honesty. So it’s only natural that you want to know why you slept in a foreign embassy four days after your house was searched.
They could arrest me during the search if they wanted. Everything I do is an attempt to hide from them. Is it a shelter? asylum? With asylum, you deal directly with the president.
Is it an asylum offer? It seems strange to sleep in the embassy.
Isn’t it strange that I’m being persecuted? Whatever I may say, the other side can follow me. I met (President Viktor Orban of Hungary) in Argentina at the inauguration of (President Javier) Milei. I get along well with him.
What I did was not a crime. If there was a crime, they would have arrested me.
(Surveillance agency footage also showed someone visiting Mr. Bolsonaro for 38 minutes. A Brazilian media outlet later reported that it was his son Carlos. Carlos was in the room with us. )
Carlos, you visited your father, didn’t you? What happened?
Carlos Bolsonaro: I just talked to my dad about…
(The lawyer in the room interrupts to ask to speak off the record.)
Jair Bolsonaro: Do you think I’ll have trouble leaving Brazil now? No passport? Aren’t tons of illegal immigrants coming to the US? I am an army captain. I am used to the hardships abroad.
Ok. But why were you at the embassy?
Who knows? Maybe I have a lover there.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I care about the truth, and you say you do too. So I just want to understand.
It’s a secret. Maybe one day you will know.
